one of the things that I hear from, you know, from operations managers, you know, that sometimes there's this disconnect between the, the younger, worker and, and, and the older employees and getting them to connect and, see each other's value, you know, once, once that clicks and falls into place, then you have magic. Hello, everybody. Welcome to MIT Learn. I'm your host, Daniel Braconnier. And today in the studio, we have Beth Unger, a research scientist working on or focusing on workforce development with the MIT Materials Research Laboratory. And together we're going to find out why this matters. But before we get to this, thanks for being here, Beth.

Yeah, absolutely. How was your, you took a pretty long commute here. You had to go through a couple different transit. I did, I did, so it took me three hours to get here. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course, of course. Now, this. I didn't realize that this was on my bucket list to be on a podcast. Now that I'm sitting here in the moment, I realized it was on my bucket list. Yeah, yeah. There you go. I'm checking it off. That's great. That's wonderful. And so just the way that I operate, I need to have boots on the ground and I need to understand what's going on. And so that required me going to sit in the locker room at Boston Sand and Gravel and sitting there and chatting with the with the concrete delivery professionals sitting in a ready mix truck riding around Boston and, talking to the ready mix drivers or actually calling, yeah, yeah, concrete delivery professionals.

And that was actually my first job or project at MIT. The thrust behind that project was to focus on recruitment, retention and productivity. And a lot of work has been dedicated to this subject. But the sponsor said, okay, well, we want to focus on technology and how technology can improve these things. one of the cool things that happened, I was they actually have a ready mix driver rodeo. And yes, this is an annual event. And, I went to one in Denver, Colorado, and companies will select their best drivers. And these drivers will come to this event and they will bring their family. It could be their first time on a plane.

So it's a very special honor and event. And I was in Denver, Colorado. And me just being me, I'm out there and I'm watching this event and talking to folks, and there's this guy, this salty looking, driver who gets out, and I start chatting with him, and I'm walking and asking questions. so I'm chatting. And Kenny, he's from Boston. He's, been a ready mix driver for 35 years. And he invites me to ride along with him, and it was cool. So I got up, I, you know, I was in the yard at 5:30 a.m., I believe. Oh, yeah. And I rode around and and and just that experience is really impactful because, you know, things that I learned, you know, the truck is basically their office.

You know, he's talking to family members. He's, you know, eating his lunch because in order to get back to the, you know, get back to the yard and come back and, he's talking to family members. And so, what? You know, what came out of that? There were lots of things. But one of the things that I'm proud of is he, you know, was a union rep, and we, you know, we became friends. And he called me and said, hey, Beth, you know, well, you know, a little bit, like a rest of your voice, you know, but, you know. Hey, Beth, you know, do you mind sharing, you know, a report with me, something I can take. And so I did.

And don't quote me on this, but I believe that they purchased either 3 or 5 new trucks. That because, you know, imagine driving one of these, you know, ready mix trucks in Boston. They're, you know, they're the heaviest. Yeah. Yeah. When they're loaded with concrete, they are it's scary. Yeah. Right. And and then, you know, you're trying to place concrete so it really matters, you know, you know, especially putting new drivers into these rolls or into the older trucks, you know, that's going to impact retention because they are going to be, you know, after four or 5 or 6 months, you know, if they're driving one of these old trucks and the stress that comes along with this, they're going to quit because there's other jobs that are available that, you know, we're paying around the same amount.

So that was something that was positive. And that was my very first, project at Amity, where we were focusing on, you know, using technology to improve recruitment, retention and productivity for, ready mix drivers. That's wonderful. Yeah, it was fun. Yeah. That project is still near and dear to me. Yeah. It's good. So we had a we had a prerecorded impromptu, conversation about the, the concrete and for, for the common, Home Depot, consumer, radio mixes is there, there's a lot of ready mix, concrete bags that you might have noticed. So is that company local to the Massachusetts area or are they, they big, wholesome?

Well, I mean, they're several concrete producers. Oh, yeah. No no no no no. So one of the things that you don't think about concrete is that it's a perishable. Good. And so once, once you mix the cement with water, there's a window of time that it must be delivered. And so, you know, let's just say the rule of thumb would be 90 to 90 minutes for it. You know, once it's been, mixed and you're leaving the yard to get to the destination. And because of that, that means that there's several producers, thousands of producers across the U.S. because it's not possible to, you know, get into a truck and deliver, you know, take three hours to deliver a load of concrete. So, so there's larger companies.

Yeah. Like the one I mentioned, wholesome or Zynga, but then there's smaller, producers and, and part of the project that I was discussing with you, you know, yes, I was working with the larger companies, but I was also working with some of the smaller producers, in the town where I live. So that's great. Yeah. You were mentioning the using technology to enhance retention or kind of battle with that, that issue with some for some industries. And what types of technology are being used for that? Well, let's just we'll just stay on that project. We'll stay on, the, ready mix driver and I and when I, I'm going to switch over and I'm going to say concrete delivery professional.

Yeah. Because we wanted to elevate their status because they're, they're more than just a driver. Absolutely. And so they're working with the material. And and so we wanted to elevate their, their status. And so they're concrete delivery professionals. So there's lots of things that we investigated. And you know we could not endorse a specific company. But but there were things, you know, gosh. Think about when you're getting in and out of the truck, how the, the seats are designed and, and, you know, the, the, the steering wheel and, and the autonomy there, but, also washing trucks because you don't want the concrete to dry on it because it gets heavy and, and so there's technology out there where the concrete trucks can drive through a washer.

And that what that does is it improves productivity because it's faster, but it's also safer because the, Concrete Delivery Professional or CDP doesn't have to get out of the truck, get a hose, and especially in the winter in Boston, right, you know, standing there washing down the truck and then, you know, getting to the site, placing the concrete, getting, you know, rinsing that off. And so that's that's one example is a washer, gamification using gamification for the CDPs. When you see a CDP. Yeah, like a concrete delivery professional. Right. Gamification using that to for engagement. And, you know, they're using it for safety and delivery and productivity, but they've, they have seen a positive impact in using that.

And the CDP's becoming more engaged. And, you know, seeing other performance indicators, improve. So, simulations as well, you know, like I was saying, one of the hardest things for new CDPs, think about driving a loaded truck on, you know, on, on the ground, right. You know, off road. Okay. All right. Yeah, I don't even. It's not for me. And anyways, you it's, you know, safety is paramount. And and so there's there's simulations out there. We're actually it simulates a rollover and it's terrifying. Yeah. Yes. Terrifying. And it's really to make the person realize just the gravity of it and to be, you know, just the safe, you know, to be careful.

So those were the the things that we identified, things that could be used by companies to, help with these things. And, and, and, you know, increase the number of loads delivered. And, so, so is, were you mentioned the, the seat this type of seats maybe like adding to the, the cleaning protocol by kind of automating it or making it easier in some ways. And is, is that all that workforce development is like what is workforce development. More than just saying upgrading someone. You were going to ask that question. That's good. I had three hours to think about my response. So, workforce development, I really didn't have a good response, to be honest with you, because like I said, I'm I'm all over the map.

Yeah. I, you know, I think that now this is an area where I don't work, but, you know, helping the future gender, you know, future workforce, you know, that K, you know, K through 12. And, that's actually how I got into workforce development. I was there, and we're probably all like this when you're in school and you're wanting to know why I'm learning this. When am I going to use the Pythagorean theorem? Yeah. And I never really got an, an answer that that resonated with me or landed. Well. And so, I, I have two children, and I remember, you know, my son's bringing home fractions and I'm thinking, oh, my gosh, you know, I believe that this should all be connected to industry.

You know, that there that these problems should be, you know, connected to real life problems, something in your backyard. Right. So, I started it did not go anywhere, but I started, sassy applied stakeholders aligned with schools for sustainability in education. I love the acronym. It's very me. Yeah. And so, so sassy applied. And, I didn't have a bench. Right. But I just knew that, you know, what I was doing, I, I, I live on Cape, and I was bringing in scientists and engineers from this research institution, Hui Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution. And we had some rock stars, and I was bringing them into the, the classrooms at, some of the, elementary schools.

And but then I realized, oh, my gosh, I'm not talking to the all of the stakeholders. Right. I just here I am coming in thinking, well, I've got this great idea and I'm and I'm talking to the teachers. And they said, well, this is, this is wonderful. But, you know, it's not connecting to our curriculum. So that is then I started realizing like, okay, well, whatever, whatever we create, it has to connect to curriculum. Yeah. So workforce development I will I do remember to bring it around. So there there's the, the future workforce and that's a place and and sassy never went anywhere. But but it's funny because you know, you pivot and take these turns and maybe, you know, you land in a place where it's not exactly where you thought it was going to be.

But now here I am at MGT, doing workforce development. Who would have thought so? And then there's, you know, helping the current workforce. And that's more my space where I operate. And, and so I can work directly with employers and there might be, you know, working in emerging technologies such as fusion, where there's going to be emerging occupations, like a tritium plant operator. And so new roles that do not exist and understanding and learning. Well, what are going to be the the tasks and skills this person needs to have? Because building out this profile, you know, helps. Then the these companies training purposes.

And then of course there's so there's building the training and then there's curriculum, you know, building curriculum. I don't build curriculum. I'm not a learning scientist. But what I do do is I, I go out and I collect the data, I talk to the companies and identify training gaps. And and then I bring that, I bring those findings back, and I give those findings to the learning scientists. And they create the curriculum. So workforce development. Yeah, it's it's you know, working with the current workforce and future workforce. Sure. Yeah. With I feel maybe a lot of do you do you run into current workforce members that are worried about the future workforce solution, where it's just like, okay, well, we have this new job coming.

The new people will take it over. What happens? How do you make sure that the workforce development program includes the current workforce? Explain to me a little bit more what you mean by that. I think you get maybe set up an example for me. Like I'm like maybe manufacturing like, yeah, absolutely. For say for a as standard CNC technician. Sure. They're, they've been maybe been working with the machines for some of them 50 years in some, some cases. And the new machines come in, they're more technologically advanced. And then there's this barrier and what is there, I guess, a, a duty in that sense, for workforce development to come in and help that person get over that barrier, or is it or are companies more defined, companies leaning more on just gravitating to hiring a new person?

Well, I mean, I can tell you this, in manufacturing, we there's going to be a huge exodus of folks that leaving the workforce and they're going to be taking institutional knowledge with them. Sure. Automation, you know, and and we should never underestimate that. And I'm, you know, I was, talking to a person yesterday and, a manufacturer in Rhode Island, and, you know, this was this is what keeps them up at night. And one of the things that I hear from, you know, from operations managers, you know, that sometimes there's this disconnect between the, the younger, worker and, and, and the older employees and getting them to connect and, see each other's value, you know, once, once that clicks and falls into place, then you have magic.

Yeah. So, I, you know, I would urge, a person to encourage, you know, your employees to see, to look for value in the others and see what you can take away. And you know what? What are their strengths. And to build upon that, what are some what are some ways that that has been done or have been worked out? I don't I it is something you know what I mean? It's something that comes so naturally to me that. But I don't know if, to be honest with you, Daniel. I don't know if there's a, you know, if they do lunch and or, you know, or if there's outings that build up, comradery, you know, with the, with the workers, because it's probably, you know, just building relationships and becoming friends and, and understanding each other's value.

So, but in terms of specific programs that do that, I mean, of course. Well, now that I'm thinking about, I mean, of course, there's, you know, mentors and assigning, you know, a person, to, and, you know, and working with this person, which the mentor type program is pretty common for manufacturing. Yeah. That's right. Exactly. Yeah. And so and I'm sure, like anything it can go well or it could be a disaster. Sure. Yeah. And this person says I need, you know, find someone else. So is there, distinction between, say, on job training or on, like, big workforce development or those are those part of it all the same ecosystem?

Well, I mean, yeah, well it falls under, you know, there's on the job training, but then there's sitting in a classroom. Yeah, I know there's there's what we're doing for the, TechAmp, the technologist program. And what is that? What are we doing? Yeah. And who's we? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I, I am part of the leap group and TechAmp. The purpose of TechAmp is to scale this role, that it's this person who sits between, a technician and an engineer. And so, it is a person who combines hands on skills and then also systems level thinking. And so, they are this boundary spanning individual where they're able to communicate, you know, with both groups.

And, and we have learned from manufacturers that by not having this role on the shop floor or not enough folks who have these skills, that there can be delays and, in production and workflows. And so our mission is to come in and help companies build this, you know, create this person. It's this person who's been on your shop floor for three years. It's the person you can't afford and you want to invest in. And so, my role in this was actually that in going out and talking to local manufacturers, big and small and saying, you know, what is it that you need this person to, to have? And, and so then again, bringing, you know, what they shared with us, bringing that to Dr. John Liu's team and who is the PI on this project on TechAmp actually, the whole team is wonderful.

So, I can't say enough. I'll let them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, you let them know if you see them. Yeah. And so, so that material is coming there and, and we are wrapping up the, the first year, you know, the sponsor, guess and which stands for industrial base Analysis Sustainment Program. Thank you. And, double check me on that. So I do not want the the Department of war, coming after me because I did not get the acronym. Correct. So, IBS is the is the sponsor, and and so we, had recruits. It's for incumbent workers. And one of the things that, I watched and observed, what, you know, that I thought MIT really did a great job doing was profiling the student, because, you know, this is someone who might even, like, might be afraid of math.

Right. You know, might not know how to use an Excel spreadsheet, those types of things. So really understanding who is, you know, who's who's the audience. And and so we are that the completing the first year and it's really, wonderful to see because I know all of the hard work that's gone into it. But, the people, the employees being empowered. Yeah. And, and and, that's rewarding. And they feel empowered and they are delivering a return on investment. And companies are responding well, and and they're seeing the value and they're seeing how this can transform their organization. And now thinking about things, how they need it.

It's creating career pathways. Yeah. And that's important because if a person starts working somewhere and they feel there's nowhere to go and two years, you know, they're there's they're going to cons to be exploring other options. For sure. So you know, I mean the the benefits of this program are far reaching for, you know, for the workforce. So, that is TechAmp. And you're going to have to remind me again, because I think I'm not answering the question that you asked. I think I yeah, I think you're I mean, we went along a lot longer detour and go. Yeah, I took it. I yeah, I took a detour I had for our listeners.

I just want to, let me know. So the the leap Group or learning engineering and practice group is, is run by Dr. John Liu here at MIT in the mechanical engineering department, which I am also associated with. So we're we're very familiar of this work. And TechAmp is you can think of it as an amalgamation of 'technician amplified'. We're amplifying our technicians, which is really cool work and it's really exciting to see the positive outcome of it. I'm I'm curious, since you've experienced a lot of different workforce development programs, how how have you seen these start? Is it the company reaches out as some outside policy making it happen?

Who are the players? Well, I mean, for, for TechAmp, it was, you know, Dr. John Liu having this vision and realizing we need to scale this role and, and the sponsor agreeing with it. Yeah. It can also be, a private company realizing we need to get ahead of the curve, you know, that this is going to be an occupation that we need. And, you know, let's ask MIT to to go out and, investigate. So, yeah, that so the how it starts and, you know, it could be the, an industry consortium working together and wanting to, create a project that's, like, you know, right now I'm working on a project that's focused on scaling low carbon concrete.

Okay, which low carbon concrete is, you know, it's a different type of material. The curing time, the finish ability. It just it's actually kind of interesting and really changes the, the, the project life and the implementation process. And of course, in construction safety and performance, you know, that's that's paramount. And, and so we have this new material where we don't have a lot of data on it. And so in different applications. And so I, it's working. MIT is working with Amazon and to support the Climate Pledge initiative. And so my role has been going out and interviewing different stakeholders, you know, owners and developers, general contractors, structural engineers, ready mix suppliers, sustainability managers, and, and characterizing specific projects that they have been involved in where low carbon concrete.

And I'm using a loose definition of blue carbon concrete. That's a whole other podcast. Yeah. That's my plug. Yeah. We'll get you back. Yeah. So, so interviewing different stakeholders and and identifying, you know, understanding the implementation process and things that are happening in this process that are preventing the the use of low carbon concrete. So excuse me. So in terms of how these, you know, how these projects start, it just depends on on the need right. Or the problem, the gap the you know what we're trying to solve. So so those are the different ways it, it sounds like to me from our conversation, it's, it's kind of a at least a positive outlook on like if a new technology comes along, creates this new need, there's a real value and paying attention to our incumbent, our incumbent workforce. Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, especially in manufacturing and building people up. What? You know, what's that expression like? Grow your own, you know, grow your own? I think that I'm stealing that. I believe that was, a manufacturer who's who's part of Tech amp. You know, that's investing in your in your current workforce is less expensive then, than hiring new people. And, and then, you know, there's the on the job training that we were talking about and, you know, that it's costly. Yeah. You know, there's a lot of, that's that's actually something that I would like to do more of, in terms of research is really monetizing, the cost of, of training or, you know, we did look at that briefly when we were working on this project that I was discussing, the CDP, the concrete delivery professional at the beginning, because, you know, if you've got a lot of turnover, you're, you know, that's really impacting your productivity because you've got a new person and there's, you know, just this ramping up period.

And so that's costly. But monetizing, you know, monetizing that is it. It is challenging. And and there's just these hidden it costs that exist. And, and and you know, like, the project that I was just the, low carbon concrete, you know, poor implementation, you know, back and forth meetings, these things. It's a hidden cost. Oh, yeah. You know, and and so optimizing that and improving that matters. And it makes I mean, there's so many positive externalities if you crack that nut. Right. Everybody's happier. Everybody's like, you know, but glad to come to work. They're not dreading that meeting that they have at 1:00 in the afternoon.

So, yeah. Yeah. Well, say it with, I guess filling the filling in gaps with new technology or, I guess, new profit initiatives or something. Do with workforce development is it's kind of a broad. It's a broad thing, but have you seen it? Has it always worked? And what have you seen that hasn't worked? Let me see. Well, sometimes when people get in the way. Oh, yeah. No, we don't need that. Yeah. No no no no no no no no no no no I know, you know, people are people and, you know, our mindset and, you know, the construction industry, let's just, you know, let's take the construction industry, this mindset, well, this is what we've been doing for, you know, the last 50 years, and it's working.

So why would we change it? You know, and I think that that that mentality of not being open to change and, valuing younger, the younger generation and not just thinking that they're always on their phones. Yeah, right. You know, they they do bring something to the table, which we mostly are, but yeah. Hey, I hey, I've been having, better, what is it? Hygiene. Phone hygiene. I've been having, you know, my coffee in the morning and trying to go one hour, you I guess do you see, Like ways that have worked for getting people to be as, let's call a lifelong learner or willing to change like what is what is cracked that I don't know.

I mean I will say, so, a project that I was involved in and it was for an emerging, you know, emerging technology, fusion. You know, I do know that the, the type of person that, you know, that they were trying to find because they're also they're, they're, they're rapidly hiring and, and, you know, it's going to be difficult to find a person who has the exact skill set, right. Sure. And so you need to find this person who is this continuous learner and this app, you know, having this aptitude, to, you know, take on these aptitude to learn. And, it's funny because I don't know, and if you can scale that or if it's just something that's in the person.

But I know that that's what they try to find. And if that person has that, then, then then that's, you know, almost kind of like the gatekeeper, like, okay, this person is motivated. Yeah. And, and and we can bring them in and we can train them. Yeah. And so, I don't know if that, you know, I don't know if we can program that program that or create that just. Yeah, I don't know. What And I imagine you've seen ways where that happens on the job site, like with CDP's of where the mentorship program working out in a good way and, giving people the ability to find those answers and learn and ask questions and supporting that inquisitive nature and, even from your your sass.

Yes. That's sassy. Sassy. It's I, I was thinking back, trying to envision myself as a student in a classroom where my fraction problems had to do with, I don't know how many worms I had in this cup versus that one. Something real. Yeah, yeah. Or at least feeling real to me when I'm five or something. I probably would have it a lot easier for me to approach that, and I would have been applying it more immediately in my, you know, on the playground moments. Yeah. And and actually, let me tell you another thing. So the thing with sassy at that time, you know, so this would have been 2018 before Covid. And, at that time, employers could find workers that, you know, it wasn't challenging.

And, and so it was really difficult because in my mind. So I created a couple, prototypes, they were called memes, actually meaningful enhancement material, because I knew that after talking to the teachers that I needed to enhance their lessons. And, and so I wanted to work with companies, and create these problems that then I would, you know, map to curriculum and say, look, this is just, you know, this is from a company that's in your backyard, marine technology. And, you know, it it when you're, you know, when you're teaching the students about Pythagorean theorem. Well, you can use this because, you know, if you're putting a solar panel on a Bui.

Yeah, right. But at that time, trying to get companies to see the value or getting them to have the buy in at that time, why do I need to do that? Oh, right. Yeah. Yes, exactly. And now now especially in manufacturing, you know, and and maybe that's really where, you know, I, I work in manufacturing that but now you've got more companies getting it. Sure. You know, we need to be working with the elementary schools. We need to be going and, you know, sponsoring the, you know, robotic events. And, you know, we need to invest in, in our future workforce. And so that is definitely a shift, that I've noticed, you know, the companies that get it, the ones who will survive.

Yeah. You know, now you mentioned Covid. So it sounds like companies are starting to get it after a huge pandemic. Do you feel, well, what have you seen or do you feel that IT workforce development tends to be reactive or there's some people that have done it. I mean, yeah, I, I have not conducted a formal, formal study, but most of the time human like, we are reactive. Yeah. You know, and there's just a handful of, of folks who are, you know, thinking far ahead, but, you know, some, some of these smaller companies, it's very difficult to think ahead. They're putting out today's fires. They know that this is a problem.

Maybe, you know, maybe they know that they that this makes sense. And, and, they, they should be doing this, but it takes time and, and, and resources to, you know, to, to send someone from the company to, you know, to serve on boards and to, you know, being part of community events. So, you know, and there just aren't there's not enough hours in the day and you're putting out, you know, and if you're if it's, you know, you're trying to find folks and, it's yeah, yeah. To ask is there. So in the US, the Department of War is funding the, the tech and projects and. Do you think that there should be more funding like policy wise, like is it.

Well, I can't tell you this. It's expanding. So we, so the, the model is there's, the hub, which is the core curriculum. And, and then there are electives or spokes. So it's a hub and spoke model. And, and so you have these electives or spokes and you know, robotics design for manufacturing, automatic programing, automation programing. And so now, the marine industrial base program has approached us to develop three more spokes or three more electives that support this program. And so, I was involved in that project where it was working with companies that are part of this program to identify the areas of knowledge, that a mid technologist would need to know.

And then, and these, these areas of knowledge will become these new courses. So I don't know if it's okay to say what the but, Okay. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. Spoiler alert. So it sounds like, for people maybe considering the impact of supporting a policy or so on for workforce development, that if it's there, it allows for development to happen because companies are, as you said, busy with their day to day. They can't always invest in creating an entire school curriculum for themselves. Yeah. I mean, like, look, I will tell you this. So right now, we are recruiting for this, for the second year, and the sponsor, you know, the only cost, the only cost for the company is essentially, you know, sending your worker to, the, the training site.

And, you know, there are six training sites in that, you know, some of them have, the labs, the in-person learning during working during the working day. And so that's, you know, that's what they're paying, for because the tuition is, is free, but. You know, there's a huge return on value, but and they're able to see it. But for some of these smaller companies even know they know that it would be a great opportunity. They still cannot, take advantage of this. So we're, we're we're in a tricky place because we just all of the, you know, we're we're all of them, you know, manufacturing, offshoring, all of that.

Now we're hustling. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, we're in there. Yeah. We're hustling. And so we're, you know, trying to think of ways of like, improving productivity and training opportunities and, and, and, inspiring people to go into, you know, to become welders and, and machinists and, you know, that that's. Yeah. I mean, I was at the community college before, Cape Cod Community College and, and working on a project that was supported by the Department of War and, it involved reducing the training gap for new hires, new technicians when they were hired by local manufacturers. Right. And, enrollment. Yeah. That's where I was going with this.

So this was 2019 or maybe. No, no, everything was shut down 2020. The enrollment numbers in these programs were dismal. Oh, yes. Yes, very, very, very small. And so and I was working with community colleges across Massachusetts and, you know, they were all in the same boat. And now that's changing. That's good. Yeah. Community college is now free, here in Massachusetts. So that's amazing. I actually went to a community college. Good for you. Yeah. I, and then I worked at a community college, and now I am here and still get to work with community colleges. So I'm, a big fan, and, but, yeah, I mean, we just there wasn't the interest there, and, I don't know what the other than just, you know, hearing, like, yes, the numbers are getting better at from some colleagues, but they were shockingly low.

I'm talking, you know, a handful. Well, yeah. Yeah. So people just not going into this and thinking about it, but so. So I think we'll switch over to some of our questions. Okay. Yeah. I like to start with any common misconceptions about what we talk today and you'd like to highlight. Well, I'll say this. I feel like this term workforce development. Is this new term or it it's well I don't know. I mean it's always been there, I mean workforce development. Take your kids to work. Yeah. Okay. That's right. Like that's, that's in my mind. That's actually a form of workforce development. We don't do it anymore. But that's workforce development.

I have, I've brought my son here to some meetings here on campus. He was dreadfully bored. And, but but I knew that it was still positive, because something I knew, something had to be, you know, sinking in. So I think we need to be doing more of those things, because if you think about it, how non-linear the pathways are, right? You know, when you think about what you you know, what you went to school to study. And then you know, where you land or where you are now, it's very non-linear. And you know, when I talk to my friends, you know, I majored in, in photography, but now I'm in finance. You know, you start to ask your friends and you're like holy smokes.

So and one of the things that I wonder is that if we were doing a better, like, job in workforce development. Yeah. Starting earlier, would that path be, you know, straighter? I don't know what the answer is, but it's just something that I do think about. And do we want it to be straighter I don't know. Okay. Because you do pick up you know I think teaching people to focus on the competencies and being able to communicate is so important. And that was, you know, something that you know when I was at the community college, you know, students, they might be thinking, okay, you know, I, I took mathematics or they're there, they're communicating with, you know, employers, but they're using the name of a class, or they're not using terms like troubleshooting or process control or they're, you know, this was this time when I had to communicate, face this problem, and I had to communicate and advise with this other, you know, those are the things those are like transferable skills or competencies.

Right. Okay. We've hit the TLDR section. It stands for too long. Didn't listen. Yeah. Yes. Common podcast lingo. Okay. Right. So you're in the in-crowd now. All right. Thank you. Didn't take long. Well, yeah, it took me, what, an hour to get in the in-crowd. Okay. All right. Maybe that's a record. Yeah. You know, pretty good. Okay. So this is where I'd like to give you the floor to tell our listeners why what we talked about matters, why this matters. And you, you are welcome to look at the camera over my shoulder if you want to give them direct eye contact, but you can just talk to me, too. Oh, let's see here why this matters.

our jobs are such a big part of our lives. And, you know, feeling inspired, feeling valued. If those things exist, you've got magic. Yeah. And so, you know, when I'm doing these projects, you know, or building out profiles for occupations or thinking about training in my mind what I'm telling myself is that that it's helping, a company, you know, for example, find the right person or the right fit to come in to this role, and they are going to help this company grow and succeed. And, because they're productive, you know, comes down to productivity, you know, and, and and when you feel valued and inspired, you're productive.

And I, I think that. Scaling that is, you know, why doing what I do in my mind lets me scale inspiration and value for workers and for companies. And that's why I enjoy doing what I do. Well said from myself. All our listeners, thank you for joining us today. Beth. So this was Beth Unger from a research scientist here at MIT working on workforce development. And to our listeners, I've been your host, Daniel Braconnier. Everyone here. Thanks for listening. Chat with you next time.